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hello from Sydney Australia Richardson

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is here with you once again for the

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skeptic zone The Skeptical podcast this

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is show number 10 for Boxing Day 2008 a

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special show we have an interview with

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none other than Derek and swoopy from

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the great podcast skeptic ality that's

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coming up in a moment conducted by our

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very own Kylie Sturgis and after that

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i'll be reading with the help of tiffany

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day from the latest issue of the skeptic

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the journal of australian skeptics not

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to be confused with the skeptic magazine

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from the united states an article

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entitled murder for entertainment and

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profit about a psychic task force

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investigating a very famous set of

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serial killings but we'll get to that

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soon a few other quick announcements for

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you before we get into the show thanks

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to everybody who's donated a couple of

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dollars towards the upkeep of the

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skeptic zone and if you wish to donate

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two bucks and that's all we asked for

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visit our homepage ww skeptics on TV and

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there you can also find the link in last

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week's show to the video of Tiffany days

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kittens now we've had a lot of email

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about people wanting to know about

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Tiffany's kittens well the video link is

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there you can see them for yourself also

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it might interest you to know that at

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the bottom of that page you'll find a

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map of the world with a little dot

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showing you the locations of all our

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listeners it's very interesting to see

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where everybody's listening from and one

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final announcement I'll make before we

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get into the show the UK skeptics or

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some of them at least have started up

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skeptics in the pub in Birmingham now if

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you want to check that out just go to ww

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skeptics in the pub co uk and wow even

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they are spelling skeptics with a k

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these days so that's birminghamal you

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people listening in Birmingham in the

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surrounding area run quickly with beer

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glass in hand to skeptics in the pub

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because they are a lot of fun well

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enough about that let's get stuck into

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this episode

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for Boxing Day 2008 without interview

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with Derek and swoopy from skepta

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for this episode I've had the honor of

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talking to both Derek Holland uno and

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swoopy the hosts of skeptic ality the

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official podcast of skeptic magazine

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from scientists and skeptics such as

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Michael Shermer Neil deGrasse Tyson and

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Richard Dawkins to pop culture figures

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such as musician George hurry up

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novelist scott sigler and the creators

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and executive producers of the TV show

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numbers skeptic allottee has done at all

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Steve Jobs of Apple computers recognized

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skeptic allottee as one of the top nine

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podcast during his keynote address in

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2005 and yet that very same day co-host

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Derek suffered a stroke during the

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hiatus of about six months in 2006

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whilst he recovered skeptic allottee

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continued on and in 2007 for the parsec

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award skeptic allottee was recognized as

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the best speculative fiction podcast and

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the best science podcast and even one

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podcast of the week by the UK times in

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2008 I took this opportunity to learn

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more about the history of skeptic ality

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and also their ongoing work as track

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directors at dragoncon the 30,000 plus

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member convention where they host the

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the biggest thing i think that most

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people saying it's the best advice I

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ever got is to make sure that when you

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decide you're going to have a program

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about something that you really love it

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yeah and that you're really passionate

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about it because your listeners will

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know if you're just talking about

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something to talk about something versus

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talking about something that you really

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love them and that making em so make

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sure you love it and make sure you do

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your research yeah that's one of the

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things I've always noticed about your

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interviews you are so incredibly well

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researched I sort of sit back and go

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damn I don't know half the things about

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a handful of the interviewees that you

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have and yet you guys seem to be full

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bottle on absolutely everybody and so

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passionate about what they do I can't

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sit down and talk to somebody unless I

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am as well prepared as I possibly can be

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it's like it's like giving a speech or

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whatever as long as you are as prepared

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as you possibly can be then it really

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helps olay a lot of my nervousness when

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I'm talking to somebody because I get

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nervous talking to anybody yeah and

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especially if I get the chance to talk

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to somebody that we really really love

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and really really respect which i think

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is just about everybody I talked to who

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did you ever think it was going to end

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up this way I mean back when you start

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and how we started was way back in the

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beginning of the internet actually right

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before the webhead even hoping well drew

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we didn't we didn't spend as much time

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online back then because people weren't

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online as much that's only what we met

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yeah i know i bet i'm saying it wasn't

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our past time when we hung out we didn't

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other stuff well okay no but we met we

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met on IRC if I remember that thing is

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everybody remembers Isaac not everybody

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anyway that's how we met was I was in

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college and I think you were the time

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too um no I was working at the time but

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it was it was just it was mutual nerd

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meets there it was I have a technical

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oblem and a friend of a friend said I

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know somebody who can help you with your

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problem and I ended up talking to him on

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the phone and we've been friends ever

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since it's been like since what like

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nineteen ninety three or four for

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something like that yeah and uh and then

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she at the time she lived in Seattle

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yep and Derek lived in the bright lights

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and big city of Las Vegas and I decided

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I would go who doesn't want to live in

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Las Vegas and that was even before like

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you know watching CSI and all of that

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stuff but so you know that's that's kind

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of what we were doing for a while but as

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far as getting the podcast started it

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was just simply a matter of Derek saying

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you know there's just really cool thing

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that some people are doing and this was

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back at the end of 2004 and he had heard

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some tech podcast that he really

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respected and we thought you know it's

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something interesting to do that not a

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lot of people who are doing it sounded

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interesting to me but I couldn't imagine

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that it would be anything remotely

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entertaining to anybody else to listen

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to us top of that stuff well it's funny

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because I mean like you said about the I

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was a DJ well when this will be him down

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to vegas i was doing night shifts at the

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local alt rock station at night you know

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it was kind of fun now and then we get

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to like play whatever wanted to at night

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so that was kind of fun you know the

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boss is the boss people they don't stay

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up all night they go to bed because they

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have to do you know normal the hours so

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the duties got to do whatever they

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wanted and all my friends were actually

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on the radio too so you know it's like a

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radio culture at the time that I was

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involved wishes her BF it was involved

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with the two so it once podcasting came

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around I showed it to swoopy and like

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you remember when we used to play with

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up we wanted to play on the radio and

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there's things we really liked I mean we

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really like they skeptic magazine and

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things like that so it's actually sweepy

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they came to the name I guess it's a

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fabulous nothing I don't remember what

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you wanted to call it before and I just

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remember saying no not that about this

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and I don't I have no idea actually not

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that we try to figure out a name and

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then I came home from a business trip

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and it was on the whiteboard and I said

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what's this she gaves its name of the

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show I said that's good with this well

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thankfully we did a google search and at

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that time except for people misspelling

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the words skeptically a couple of

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different times it wasn't anywhere so to

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who yeah results and they were both like

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just misspelling it was just a word so

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we were lucky there but and now it's

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like you know

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it's funny to see everything now to say

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the most part that's kind of our fault

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that's like almost everything with that

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epic ality name even if it's not our

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show but that word is our well it's a

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fabulous friend than you know so it

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looks like that everything seemed to

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have really happened around about 2005

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you got into podcasting around about

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2004 2005 people saying ok let's start

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getting more into dragoncon you've got

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the keynote address by Steve Jobs

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putting you into the top night that was

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at top 10 podcasts on iTunes at the time

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yeah and then on that same day Derek

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suffers an aneurysm and suddenly

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everything's into question was the

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podcast ever in question was it that you

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know at any point because it seemed to

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me that there was just this overwhelming

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sense of this will not stop us I think

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that's true um it was I didn't know what

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to make it actually I mean the day that

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that Derek had his his stroke and we

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were in the hospital waiting and trying

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to figure out what was going on talking

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to loved ones and friends and things

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like that and then we came home after

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being there what seemed like at a time

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and I just thought well gosh I need to

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tell people that this happened and for

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some reason i sat down at the microphone

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and I just said you know this is what

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has happened i don't think i don't know

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what's going to happen but but this is

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happening so this select I don't yeah I

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don't think there's a single person out

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there who has heard the episode called

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the message and yeah I still cut I still

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can't read listen to it it was just that

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um this is Sophie and this is one of the

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things that um I really didn't want to

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do but I unfortunately have to just to

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let people know that skeptic ality isn't

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really going anywhere but we are going

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to be on a little bit of a hiatus for a

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little while Derek unfortunately he is

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in the hospital at this time uh he

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complained of a headache during dinner

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and then got physically sick and very

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quickly deteriorated but thankfully by

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that time he was nearly to the hospital

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where he was diagnosed with a VMA which

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loosely translated although not correct

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is somewhat like a brain aneurysm where

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he was bleeding into his brain he is in

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a coma right now but it is drug-induced

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as he is sedated and he is on a

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yet people helped pick up the slack as

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well I noticed uh mean it was in fact

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the interview it was interview with

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Fraser Cain and Richard Saunders that

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introduced me to Richard Saunders

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funnily enough Ronnie really yeah well I

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don't ya ya know all of it was amazing

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um the number of people who send email

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and supportive things and basically said

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you know anything you need you know we

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will do and that's when you know we

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00:11:48,990 --> 00:11:44,350
started talking more with Daniel Loxton

271
00:11:52,740 --> 00:11:49,000
of skeptic magazine and him and Fraser

272
00:11:55,170 --> 00:11:52,750
Cain of Universe Today and and just all

273
00:11:57,869 --> 00:11:55,180
sorts of folks really stepped it up and

274
00:12:00,179 --> 00:11:57,879
they were a big big help to us during

275
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that time and and we just did what we

276
00:12:03,929 --> 00:12:02,920
could to that point and then when I was

277
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in a coma so I didn't have to do

278
00:12:09,780 --> 00:12:07,899
anything you know it so so at the time

279
00:12:11,879 --> 00:12:09,790
you know we had to slow down a little

280
00:12:15,780 --> 00:12:11,889
bit and really focus on his rehab and we

281
00:12:19,769 --> 00:12:15,790
had taken kind of a long hiatus when in

282
00:12:21,749 --> 00:12:19,779
the fall of 2006 Daniel Loxton contacted

283
00:12:23,160 --> 00:12:21,759
us again and I actually wasn't even here

284
00:12:25,199 --> 00:12:23,170
i was i was at my mother's house in

285
00:12:26,610 --> 00:12:25,209
seattle and Derek said skeptic magazine

286
00:12:30,720 --> 00:12:26,620
wants to know if you want to work with

287
00:12:33,449 --> 00:12:30,730
him Wow and I said oh gosh I don't know

288
00:12:40,639 --> 00:12:33,459
I may have to think about me and Daniel

289
00:12:43,710 --> 00:12:40,649
boxin were on msn the MSN chat thing and

290
00:12:47,069 --> 00:12:43,720
went back and forth now at this time I

291
00:12:49,259 --> 00:12:47,079
was still if he was even typing but no

292
00:12:52,259 --> 00:12:49,269
you were pretty well but piping I was ok

293
00:12:54,840 --> 00:12:52,269
with that we had you on msn typique one

294
00:12:56,490 --> 00:12:54,850
finger yeah because that's how I was

295
00:12:58,530 --> 00:12:56,500
being with my wife from the hospital

296
00:13:00,780 --> 00:12:58,540
board at home he would he would Peck and

297
00:13:02,759 --> 00:13:00,790
type in to his parents who were in New

298
00:13:05,549 --> 00:13:02,769
Jersey things like that I have someone I

299
00:13:08,309 --> 00:13:05,559
was old one saved my msn which is kind

300
00:13:10,249 --> 00:13:08,319
of interesting that some of them I came

301
00:13:13,590 --> 00:13:10,259
in understand what I was trying to type

302
00:13:16,710 --> 00:13:13,600
yeah Daniel was was really he was his

303
00:13:18,540 --> 00:13:16,720
whole idea and junior skeptic is just

304
00:13:19,949 --> 00:13:18,550
it's always been and lots of people say

305
00:13:22,259 --> 00:13:19,959
it's their favorite part of skeptic

306
00:13:23,879 --> 00:13:22,269
magazine um not that there's not a lot

307
00:13:26,249 --> 00:13:23,889
of other great content but it's so great

308
00:13:28,110 --> 00:13:26,259
to see how somebody approaches

309
00:13:29,699 --> 00:13:28,120
skepticism and critical thinking for

310
00:13:31,619 --> 00:13:29,709
kids because and as you know as an

311
00:13:35,160 --> 00:13:31,629
educator that's the most important thing

312
00:13:37,710 --> 00:13:35,170
to me yeah at dragoncon I had no less

313
00:13:39,960 --> 00:13:37,720
than like at least 20 or 30 people asked

314
00:13:41,699 --> 00:13:39,970
where Danny was they all thought he

315
00:13:44,220 --> 00:13:41,709
would be there much he'll be there in 20

316
00:13:46,499 --> 00:13:44,230
days yeah here he has his hotel room and

317
00:13:48,509 --> 00:13:46,509
everything is going not sure we give him

318
00:13:50,699 --> 00:13:48,519
all the credit toward hooking us up with

319
00:13:52,860 --> 00:13:50,709
skeptic and all the folks there Pat

320
00:13:54,929 --> 00:13:52,870
Lindsay and and of course dr. michael

321
00:13:58,829 --> 00:13:54,939
shermer have all been you know really

322
00:14:00,689 --> 00:13:58,839
great and supportive and it's gotten our

323
00:14:02,519 --> 00:14:00,699
name out to a lot of people who might

324
00:14:04,019 --> 00:14:02,529
not have even you know hadn't thought

325
00:14:06,419 --> 00:14:04,029
about listening to podcasts for one

326
00:14:09,090 --> 00:14:06,429
thing because their demographic is

327
00:14:12,150 --> 00:14:09,100
generally an older demographic and what

328
00:14:13,980 --> 00:14:12,160
we hope to do is to bring you know the

329
00:14:15,629 --> 00:14:13,990
younger folks that are listening to

330
00:14:17,280 --> 00:14:15,639
podcasts or were at the time I mean I

331
00:14:19,049 --> 00:14:17,290
think everybody's into podcasts now but

332
00:14:21,509 --> 00:14:19,059
and that's really come a long way in the

333
00:14:23,400 --> 00:14:21,519
last day of two to three years but to

334
00:14:26,189 --> 00:14:23,410
get that younger demographic into

335
00:14:28,289 --> 00:14:26,199
breeding skeptic and to maybe you know

336
00:14:29,070 --> 00:14:28,299
show that older demographic that there's

337
00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:29,080
a lot

338
00:14:32,190 --> 00:14:30,730
lot of information out there in places

339
00:14:34,020 --> 00:14:32,200
that they might not have been looking

340
00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:34,030
for it and of course there's lots of

341
00:14:37,860 --> 00:14:36,010
other great skeptic podcasts out there

342
00:14:41,970 --> 00:14:37,870
you know skeptics guide to the universe

343
00:14:44,760 --> 00:14:41,980
and there's NeNe and Thomas over at one

344
00:14:47,520 --> 00:14:44,770
point of inquiry and so the fact that

345
00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:47,530
skipped akala T is involved in Dragon

346
00:14:52,170 --> 00:14:50,410
Con at all is just completely an ugly

347
00:14:54,540 --> 00:14:52,180
groundbreaking the idea that someone

348
00:14:56,190 --> 00:14:54,550
could move it out from a skeptic

349
00:14:58,170 --> 00:14:56,200
conference and say right that's it let's

350
00:15:02,430 --> 00:14:58,180
get it out to the people how did this

351
00:15:04,770 --> 00:15:02,440
occur oh dude long story well not it's

352
00:15:06,900 --> 00:15:04,780
not that complicated um Derek had been

353
00:15:08,250 --> 00:15:06,910
attending dragoncon before I moved to

354
00:15:11,430 --> 00:15:08,260
Atlanta because it's an atlanta-based

355
00:15:13,950 --> 00:15:11,440
conference and it's it's a huge sci-fi

356
00:15:16,860 --> 00:15:13,960
con but to another extent it's a culture

357
00:15:21,390 --> 00:15:16,870
con because Greg Khan's been around for

358
00:15:23,190 --> 00:15:21,400
25 years what yeah 24 come this year 20

359
00:15:26,370 --> 00:15:23,200
degree left oh is that what it is and

360
00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:26,380
it's um they have a whole section for

361
00:15:30,360 --> 00:15:27,610
science and they have a whole section

362
00:15:32,460 --> 00:15:30,370
for robotics and count minerals of

363
00:15:34,050 --> 00:15:32,470
people for all sorts of great things

364
00:15:37,050 --> 00:15:34,060
there's a whole space track and they

365
00:15:38,790 --> 00:15:37,060
have our telescopes and I mean there's

366
00:15:40,380 --> 00:15:38,800
everything that I mean if you're if

367
00:15:42,360 --> 00:15:40,390
you're a Dungeons and Dragons loving

368
00:15:43,920 --> 00:15:42,370
geek or if you are a star trek person or

369
00:15:45,750 --> 00:15:43,930
there's plenty of that but there's also

370
00:15:47,970 --> 00:15:45,760
stuff people go there just for the

371
00:15:49,830 --> 00:15:47,980
science and all of those are great

372
00:15:51,510 --> 00:15:49,840
things apart from that and then you can

373
00:15:53,580 --> 00:15:51,520
go have your fun and hang out with Dr

374
00:15:56,100 --> 00:15:53,590
Who people but then you can go to some

375
00:15:59,790 --> 00:15:56,110
really awesome science and so podcasting

376
00:16:03,150 --> 00:15:59,800
as a technology was becoming popular and

377
00:16:05,910 --> 00:16:03,160
I guess it was a Muslim in 2005 yeah the

378
00:16:08,310 --> 00:16:05,920
sci-fi fantasy author tracy hickman is a

379
00:16:11,610 --> 00:16:08,320
good friend of Dragon Con and he

380
00:16:13,530 --> 00:16:11,620
recommended us to start doing a

381
00:16:16,410 --> 00:16:13,540
podcasting programming track the Dragon

382
00:16:18,150 --> 00:16:16,420
Con and we said we'd do it and that was

383
00:16:21,930 --> 00:16:18,160
that was great and the podcasting track

384
00:16:24,420 --> 00:16:21,940
is in it it was its third year ago this

385
00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:24,430
past Dragon Con and that's been going

386
00:16:28,650 --> 00:16:26,410
well but because we had so many great

387
00:16:30,870 --> 00:16:28,660
podcasters and friends who were skeptics

388
00:16:32,610 --> 00:16:30,880
and you know our love is Memphis ism and

389
00:16:35,460 --> 00:16:32,620
science we thought it would be a really

390
00:16:37,230 --> 00:16:35,470
good fit for dragon konnen we just

391
00:16:40,130 --> 00:16:37,240
started pushing that

392
00:16:44,340 --> 00:16:40,140
after we had the podcasting track in

393
00:16:46,680 --> 00:16:44,350
2006-2007 I asked schirmer to come and

394
00:16:48,030 --> 00:16:46,690
Ben Radford to come and full plate to

395
00:16:49,769 --> 00:16:48,040
come well he'll plated already been

396
00:16:52,050 --> 00:16:49,779
attending dragon on and loving it and so

397
00:16:54,329 --> 00:16:52,060
it made sense you know why not why not

398
00:16:56,970 --> 00:16:54,339
push for it and since I had done well

399
00:16:58,500 --> 00:16:56,980
with the podcast attract go then in 2007

400
00:17:01,139 --> 00:16:58,510
we had like four or five of the big-name

401
00:17:04,319 --> 00:17:01,149
skeptics now the first tunnel of the

402
00:17:07,559 --> 00:17:04,329
entire day was ahead schirmer and

403
00:17:10,890 --> 00:17:07,569
Radford and Jeff lag and hopefully and

404
00:17:14,699 --> 00:17:10,900
yeah and like that one room little tiny

405
00:17:17,730 --> 00:17:14,709
room was so packed that like it was nuts

406
00:17:20,309 --> 00:17:17,740
and then the next year Pat the guy who

407
00:17:22,350 --> 00:17:20,319
runs the entire convention he asked me

408
00:17:25,220 --> 00:17:22,360
do you think we need like a whole

409
00:17:27,540 --> 00:17:25,230
skeptic track it said well well yeah

410
00:17:29,730 --> 00:17:27,550
definitely i said i bet we could fill it

411
00:17:33,210 --> 00:17:29,740
and next thing we know he said yeah okay

412
00:17:34,710 --> 00:17:33,220
and then he put me in charge of that one

413
00:17:36,570 --> 00:17:34,720
and left's will be in charge of the

414
00:17:38,130 --> 00:17:36,580
podcasting is that that's not a big

415
00:17:40,169 --> 00:17:38,140
problem we'll just make sure that space

416
00:17:41,880 --> 00:17:40,179
science podcasting skeptics are right

417
00:17:43,950 --> 00:17:41,890
near each other and we just do it that

418
00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:43,960
way so that's why this year we had

419
00:17:47,760 --> 00:17:46,210
skeptics and I've already been told that

420
00:17:49,980 --> 00:17:47,770
next year we have a bigger room because

421
00:17:52,950 --> 00:17:49,990
our room was not big enough Frank Tom

422
00:17:55,470 --> 00:17:52,960
terms our room for pie for the skeptic

423
00:17:57,660 --> 00:17:55,480
stuff was pretty big Wow yeah we did

424
00:17:58,799 --> 00:17:57,670
really well Derek did an amazing job and

425
00:18:00,270 --> 00:17:58,809
I can't believe that there are crazy

426
00:18:03,810 --> 00:18:00,280
people that came from as far away as

427
00:18:05,760 --> 00:18:03,820
Australia yeah whit we're just not as

428
00:18:08,190 --> 00:18:05,770
it's an Australian thing I mean but you

429
00:18:09,540 --> 00:18:08,200
could go to Antarctica to the Arctic and

430
00:18:11,130 --> 00:18:09,550
there'll be some Australian wandering

431
00:18:13,020 --> 00:18:11,140
around there taking photos we just

432
00:18:16,620 --> 00:18:13,030
notice it the thing is even before you

433
00:18:18,570 --> 00:18:16,630
guys can always seemed like every third

434
00:18:20,220 --> 00:18:18,580
or fourth person I met a drank on most

435
00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:20,230
from Australia so it's kind of weird

436
00:18:24,540 --> 00:18:22,210
that way our good friend philip he lives

437
00:18:26,549 --> 00:18:24,550
in australia and he always sends us all

438
00:18:27,930 --> 00:18:26,559
sorts of evil candies and he's been to

439
00:18:30,030 --> 00:18:27,940
dragoncon a couple of times and this

440
00:18:32,820 --> 00:18:30,040
time couldn't come but he did just a

441
00:18:35,850 --> 00:18:32,830
lion bag a big box of violet crumbles

442
00:18:37,620 --> 00:18:35,860
and macarthur lasers and minties and we

443
00:18:39,660 --> 00:18:37,630
had to I had to get them out of the

444
00:18:42,060 --> 00:18:39,670
house and they're all of our friends the

445
00:18:44,160 --> 00:18:42,070
time for these oh wait to visit Nana pop

446
00:18:46,290 --> 00:18:44,170
because we're like if we have this giant

447
00:18:47,480 --> 00:18:46,300
box of giant Australian candy here we're

448
00:18:49,460 --> 00:18:47,490
going to eat it

449
00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:49,470
we'll have to see if we can manage to

450
00:18:53,810 --> 00:18:51,450
coordinate something then do a trade off

451
00:18:55,130 --> 00:18:53,820
with Australian Molly's and an American

452
00:18:57,200 --> 00:18:55,140
candy or something like that although we

453
00:18:58,940 --> 00:18:57,210
seen him manage to cause a bit of a

454
00:19:00,770 --> 00:18:58,950
scandal last time at dragoncon by

455
00:19:04,130 --> 00:19:00,780
torturing as many people as we could

456
00:19:06,230 --> 00:19:04,140
with them must stick so I recall those

457
00:19:08,240 --> 00:19:06,240
our mentees people love them out omit

458
00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:08,250
the musk sticks though that that Richard

459
00:19:13,730 --> 00:19:10,410
yeah trying to dare people to eat them I

460
00:19:16,130 --> 00:19:13,740
never did try one what we gonna have to

461
00:19:18,950 --> 00:19:16,140
send you something no oh well Cooper I

462
00:19:20,419 --> 00:19:18,960
smelled then they smell very lovely if

463
00:19:22,760 --> 00:19:20,429
they were perfume I would want to wear

464
00:19:24,950 --> 00:19:22,770
them but I'm not sure one of the torture

465
00:19:26,750 --> 00:19:24,960
devices I remember doing the same with

466
00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:26,760
Vegemite Vegemite is one good way to

467
00:19:31,610 --> 00:19:28,530
make Americans completely enough way

468
00:19:32,900 --> 00:19:31,620
freaked out well it's so much fun

469
00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:32,910
because a lot of my friends who are

470
00:19:37,760 --> 00:19:35,250
podcasters like in the sci-fi portion or

471
00:19:39,950 --> 00:19:37,770
who are podcasting authors hung out with

472
00:19:41,419 --> 00:19:39,960
a lot of the skeptics and so now I get

473
00:19:43,700 --> 00:19:41,429
to read about my podcasting friends

474
00:19:46,070 --> 00:19:43,710
having parties with skeptics and things

475
00:19:47,570 --> 00:19:46,080
like that and it is it's really great I

476
00:19:49,760 --> 00:19:47,580
in fact there's some people that I know

477
00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:49,770
we're pretty much into the woo and I

478
00:19:54,530 --> 00:19:51,690
think they've heard around been with the

479
00:19:57,350 --> 00:19:54,540
skeptics now I think we helped change in

480
00:20:00,169 --> 00:19:57,360
people yeah there are five icons

481
00:20:01,940 --> 00:20:00,179
everywhere and if you start as a

482
00:20:03,950 --> 00:20:01,950
volunteer and get involved I mean if you

483
00:20:06,860 --> 00:20:03,960
want to see skepticism you know at your

484
00:20:09,290 --> 00:20:06,870
local nerd con I think you can put it in

485
00:20:10,850 --> 00:20:09,300
there you just you just have to get

486
00:20:12,980 --> 00:20:10,860
yourself in there and and prove that

487
00:20:13,910 --> 00:20:12,990
there's an audience for it which you

488
00:20:15,919 --> 00:20:13,920
know with all of the networking

489
00:20:18,500 --> 00:20:15,929
resources you have you just tell people

490
00:20:20,120 --> 00:20:18,510
hey you know such and such is going to

491
00:20:22,790 --> 00:20:20,130
come and give a talk here at this place

492
00:20:24,770 --> 00:20:22,800
everybody come and support it you know

493
00:20:27,440 --> 00:20:24,780
they will and it will it will prove it

494
00:20:29,450 --> 00:20:27,450
because we had no idea how many people

495
00:20:31,760 --> 00:20:29,460
were going to come to dragoncon to see

496
00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:31,770
the skeptics and it's astounding or we

497
00:20:35,840 --> 00:20:33,570
were shocked people from all walks of

498
00:20:38,570 --> 00:20:35,850
life and it was great when James Randi

499
00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:38,580
he had an interview about I'm one of the

500
00:20:42,560 --> 00:20:40,890
magic podcast and he had just gotten

501
00:20:44,570 --> 00:20:42,570
back from dragoncon and he was talking

502
00:20:47,120 --> 00:20:44,580
about the diversity of people that he

503
00:20:48,620 --> 00:20:47,130
saw was really yeah he loved it that

504
00:20:50,510 --> 00:20:48,630
there were folks in wheelchairs and

505
00:20:52,790 --> 00:20:50,520
there were people of all shapes and

506
00:20:55,790 --> 00:20:52,800
sizes career with disabilities and other

507
00:20:58,610 --> 00:20:55,800
babies are and and nobody all of these

508
00:21:01,010 --> 00:20:58,620
misfit people they all belong

509
00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:01,020
and and that's just the greatest thing

510
00:21:06,860 --> 00:21:04,290
is there's no judgment it's just a great

511
00:21:08,750 --> 00:21:06,870
place for everybody to come and get

512
00:21:11,090 --> 00:21:08,760
together on these topics that they you

513
00:21:13,340 --> 00:21:11,100
know they all agree on and it's very

514
00:21:16,010 --> 00:21:13,350
tactile there it's very tangible you're

515
00:21:18,410 --> 00:21:16,020
able to talk to people on a level that

516
00:21:20,780 --> 00:21:18,420
you can't at a lot of different events

517
00:21:22,670 --> 00:21:20,790
and so you know it's amounts to hang out

518
00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:22,680
with James Randi and watch him do you

519
00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:25,410
know close-up magic I mean it's it's

520
00:21:29,960 --> 00:21:28,170
doable yeah it was so awesome I think

521
00:21:32,840 --> 00:21:29,970
that goes back again to activism to

522
00:21:35,330 --> 00:21:32,850
where it helps to put the human face on

523
00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:35,340
something a lot of people brand is being

524
00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:38,250
quite cynical and you know it goes to

525
00:21:42,350 --> 00:21:40,170
show you know we're not all that

526
00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:42,360
different there are there's commonality

527
00:21:47,030 --> 00:21:44,610
we're all searching for truths and

528
00:21:48,860 --> 00:21:47,040
evidence and so you know putting a more

529
00:21:51,680 --> 00:21:48,870
human face on something that you know

530
00:21:54,410 --> 00:21:51,690
people tend to decry is always a great

531
00:21:57,770 --> 00:21:54,420
thing to go yeah improve our many peps

532
00:22:01,070 --> 00:21:57,780
alone among the public for sure and this

533
00:22:05,330 --> 00:22:01,080
year we had the Jeff mid-calf memorial

534
00:22:07,490 --> 00:22:05,340
panel we did we had opportunities to

535
00:22:09,110 --> 00:22:07,500
have people from overseas come and talk

536
00:22:10,790 --> 00:22:09,120
which the skeptics I was extremely

537
00:22:14,750 --> 00:22:10,800
grateful for we had the opportunity to

538
00:22:16,190 --> 00:22:14,760
relaunch our show what will 2009 hold

539
00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:16,200
for us we will you have more

540
00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:18,090
opportunities for kid friendly shows I

541
00:22:22,370 --> 00:22:20,610
know that there was a certain amount of

542
00:22:24,430 --> 00:22:22,380
muttering in the audience about let's

543
00:22:28,010 --> 00:22:24,440
get more kids in let's have more family

544
00:22:30,110 --> 00:22:28,020
opportunities I be exactly that last

545
00:22:32,780 --> 00:22:30,120
comment you said is definitely true

546
00:22:34,850 --> 00:22:32,790
because I had a lot of parents come up

547
00:22:37,310 --> 00:22:34,860
to me and he said can you have at least

548
00:22:40,430 --> 00:22:37,320
one or two things next year for kids or

549
00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:40,440
talk about you know educating kids and I

550
00:22:45,110 --> 00:22:42,090
want to make sure we have that next year

551
00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:45,120
and also I want to continue the Jeff

552
00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:46,890
Maggio madcap thing because it's a very

553
00:22:51,230 --> 00:22:49,650
important and you know it's so sadly to

554
00:22:56,150 --> 00:22:51,240
make it cuz he was really excited to

555
00:22:58,970 --> 00:22:56,160
come chill plate is now the head guy at

556
00:23:00,500 --> 00:22:58,980
the JR effing and he's always having

557
00:23:03,710 --> 00:23:00,510
great ideas about new things to do in

558
00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:03,720
education is a big part of his agenda so

559
00:23:07,130 --> 00:23:05,490
between him and Daniel Loxton I'm sure

560
00:23:09,919 --> 00:23:07,140
that there will be some more

561
00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:09,929
opportunities for junior skeptics and

562
00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:11,490
younger people to get involved

563
00:23:17,060 --> 00:23:13,770
and do things like that so that would be

564
00:23:19,549 --> 00:23:17,070
great too you know I don't know our

565
00:23:21,049 --> 00:23:19,559
first meeting for dragoncon is just

566
00:23:24,410 --> 00:23:21,059
after the first of the year with the

567
00:23:27,049 --> 00:23:24,420
first week of drummer yeah yeah and so

568
00:23:30,290 --> 00:23:27,059
that's when it starts rolling and the

569
00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:30,300
thing is to basically whatever anybody

570
00:23:36,650 --> 00:23:33,450
wants to have I mean it can be kind of a

571
00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:36,660
group say I mean you can go and find out

572
00:23:43,250 --> 00:23:39,570
more about things at is it's kept track

573
00:23:44,690 --> 00:23:43,260
dot o RG yeah online and we have forums

574
00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:44,700
and stuff there and people can suggest

575
00:23:48,710 --> 00:23:46,650
things that they like to see and if

576
00:23:51,380 --> 00:23:48,720
there's an overwhelming desire for one

577
00:23:53,419 --> 00:23:51,390
thing or another or one kind of speaker

578
00:23:55,130 --> 00:23:53,429
or another or if somebody really you

579
00:23:57,290 --> 00:23:55,140
know wants to do something that we

580
00:23:59,090 --> 00:23:57,300
haven't done before I think I think

581
00:24:03,830 --> 00:23:59,100
we're up for anything so people should

582
00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:03,840
should log on and suggest stuff for 2009

583
00:24:08,990 --> 00:24:06,570
because it's not too soon oh no one

584
00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:09,000
skeptic and authors and folks who want

585
00:24:15,380 --> 00:24:11,730
to sign up for the guest application you

586
00:24:17,210 --> 00:24:15,390
can go to dragoncon o RG and the guest

587
00:24:19,970 --> 00:24:17,220
application is already available to fill

588
00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:19,980
out for next year I know at least of two

589
00:24:25,340 --> 00:24:22,290
other conventions now her doing it this

590
00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:25,350
coming year icon which i think is up in

591
00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:28,410
New York are doing like a skeptic not

592
00:24:33,890 --> 00:24:31,050
like a whole track my icons don't have

593
00:24:36,890 --> 00:24:33,900
tracks but they have a vent the complete

594
00:24:39,410 --> 00:24:36,900
skeptic events at icon I know because

595
00:24:41,780 --> 00:24:39,420
they asked brian and done de brian

596
00:24:46,100 --> 00:24:41,790
dunning to go there with a bunch of the

597
00:24:49,220 --> 00:24:46,110
skip skip ecology people stepped on yeah

598
00:24:52,250 --> 00:24:49,230
and then i know it baltistan which is

599
00:24:55,010 --> 00:24:52,260
another sci-fi con vert a smaller con

600
00:24:58,910 --> 00:24:55,020
but they're doing some skeptics up to Oh

601
00:25:00,320 --> 00:24:58,920
awesome yeah no 17 I mean basically and

602
00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:00,330
if anyone wants to find out more about

603
00:25:05,930 --> 00:25:03,210
like how to you know try and pitch it to

604
00:25:08,450 --> 00:25:05,940
your local convention you know shoot us

605
00:25:10,820 --> 00:25:08,460
an email those were working to have

606
00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:10,830
everybody you know infiltrate their

607
00:25:17,120 --> 00:25:13,410
local cons with with science and skeptic

608
00:25:19,100 --> 00:25:17,130
content because I I think it fits so

609
00:25:20,780 --> 00:25:19,110
well that there's you know there's no

610
00:25:22,580 --> 00:25:20,790
science fiction without science in it

611
00:25:24,530 --> 00:25:22,590
and so there's really nothing that

612
00:25:26,150 --> 00:25:24,540
anybody can say that it says it does

613
00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:26,160
along there yeah expect a lot of

614
00:25:32,390 --> 00:25:29,010
conventions have like some spit or some

615
00:25:35,660 --> 00:25:32,400
science or space science type events and

616
00:25:38,120 --> 00:25:35,670
you know epic stuff basis basically fits

617
00:25:40,010 --> 00:25:38,130
into that perfectly so dad Randy had a

618
00:25:42,500 --> 00:25:40,020
blast I saw him but like throwing the

619
00:25:45,020 --> 00:25:42,510
last day out and down in the lobby where

620
00:25:47,990 --> 00:25:45,030
I was getting my breakfast at the little

621
00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:48,000
cafe place and I said hey James are you

622
00:25:53,510 --> 00:25:51,330
doing he's like I have a good time yeah

623
00:25:54,650 --> 00:25:53,520
it's just such a sweet man he's like

624
00:25:56,840 --> 00:25:54,660
this like the best thing ever and then

625
00:25:58,730 --> 00:25:56,850
on the last day for remember that what

626
00:26:01,280 --> 00:25:58,740
he said about is like no I definitely

627
00:26:02,690 --> 00:26:01,290
have to come back yeah like yeah yeah I

628
00:26:05,120 --> 00:26:02,700
think we were we were just really

629
00:26:07,310 --> 00:26:05,130
pleased that he had such a wonderful

630
00:26:09,020 --> 00:26:07,320
time oh he had a blast that I heard it

631
00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:09,030
from independent sources and stuff just

632
00:26:14,270 --> 00:26:12,090
you know I mean and Kylie can relay I've

633
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:14,280
told will be a couple times like on the

634
00:26:19,610 --> 00:26:17,010
last day jammed Rani was so happy and so

635
00:26:21,770 --> 00:26:19,620
spry I was worried about him cuz he was

636
00:26:26,630 --> 00:26:21,780
like jumping over little gaps and not

637
00:26:28,850 --> 00:26:26,640
like like okay gene slow down don't

638
00:26:30,650 --> 00:26:28,860
don't trip though cuz he was like he

639
00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:30,660
dropped over like things he wouldn't

640
00:26:34,790 --> 00:26:32,730
like he's in a rush they not only rush

641
00:26:36,830 --> 00:26:34,800
but he was just excited he was like this

642
00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:36,840
running around it oh yeah and what other

643
00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:38,850
conference can you have where he's like

644
00:26:42,020 --> 00:26:40,410
sitting in the audience and you walk out

645
00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:42,030
to him so you know you should be on this

646
00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:43,650
panel and he gets up and he walks onto

647
00:26:49,580 --> 00:26:46,890
our panel at join z yeah I know oh yeah

648
00:26:52,220 --> 00:26:49,590
my mom oh it's like a pig I do not want

649
00:26:55,220 --> 00:26:52,230
to be the person running the event where

650
00:26:57,950 --> 00:26:55,230
james randi gets excited and then fall I

651
00:27:00,170 --> 00:26:57,960
don't be that kind I was like what my

652
00:27:05,660 --> 00:27:00,180
last days okay chief let's be a little

653
00:27:09,290 --> 00:27:05,670
easy now I'm fine oh no you could not

654
00:27:10,910 --> 00:27:09,300
you so happy having fun oh I guess

655
00:27:13,060 --> 00:27:10,920
that's a spirit or dragon come you can

656
00:27:15,020 --> 00:27:13,070
keep any understanding just going back

657
00:27:17,540 --> 00:27:15,030
okay and then you have to go home and

658
00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:17,550
sleep for a week dragoncon to me is what

659
00:27:21,950 --> 00:27:19,770
is the neg Holly I know it's coming on

660
00:27:23,780 --> 00:27:21,960
Christmas I like Christmas but mean

661
00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:23,790
drank on to me is the real curve

662
00:27:30,050 --> 00:27:27,930
dragoncon is Derek's favorite host pick

663
00:27:32,170 --> 00:27:30,060
up the end during the entire time but

664
00:27:33,690 --> 00:27:32,180
I'm having a blast happy dragon yeah

665
00:27:37,620 --> 00:27:33,700
yeah

666
00:27:39,090 --> 00:27:37,630
I'll talk to you soon but definitely and

667
00:27:42,269 --> 00:27:39,100
brilliant holidays to you guys we're

668
00:27:43,980 --> 00:27:42,279
taking it here by pilot bar many thanks

669
00:27:46,500 --> 00:27:43,990
to Derek and Scooby for talking to us

670
00:27:48,360 --> 00:27:46,510
during a very busy time of the year you

671
00:27:52,769 --> 00:27:48,370
can find out more about skeptic allottee

672
00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:52,779
by heading to their website at wwc kept

673
00:27:58,019 --> 00:27:55,450
akala tecom and if you'd like to know

674
00:27:59,759 --> 00:27:58,029
more about Dragon Con we're both Derek

675
00:28:02,940 --> 00:27:59,769
and swoopy are responsible for directing

676
00:28:08,419 --> 00:28:02,950
their skeptic and podcasting tracks you

677
00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:08,429
can head to the website at ww.com org

678
00:28:13,169 --> 00:28:10,450
skeptic zone will once again be

679
00:28:29,159 --> 00:28:13,179
appearing as they did in 2008 and we

680
00:28:35,830 --> 00:28:32,770
hi I'm dr. ginger Campbell I started the

681
00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:35,840
brain science podcast in December 2006

682
00:28:40,870 --> 00:28:38,450
with the tagline the show for everyone

683
00:28:44,740 --> 00:28:40,880
who has a brain because you don't need a

684
00:28:48,100 --> 00:28:44,750
PhD to enjoy my podcast all you need is

685
00:28:50,950 --> 00:28:48,110
curiosity about how our brains make us

686
00:28:53,919 --> 00:28:50,960
who we are the brain science podcast is

687
00:28:56,380 --> 00:28:53,929
not a self-help show but understanding

688
00:28:59,470 --> 00:28:56,390
how the brain works will give you useful

689
00:29:02,380 --> 00:28:59,480
insights into your own behavior and the

690
00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:02,390
behavior of others on the show I talk

691
00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:04,250
about the latest books about the brain

692
00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:07,210
and I interview leading scientists of

693
00:29:12,460 --> 00:29:09,650
course I would love to be discovered by

694
00:29:15,610 --> 00:29:12,470
NPR but until then you can find the

695
00:29:25,510 --> 00:29:15,620
brain science podcast in iTunes and at

696
00:29:31,930 --> 00:29:29,570
and now we come to our reading from the

697
00:29:37,310 --> 00:29:31,940
latest issue of the skeptic magazine

698
00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:37,320
that's a volume 28 number four page

699
00:29:43,580 --> 00:29:41,010
eight murder for entertainment and

700
00:29:46,430 --> 00:29:43,590
profit and this is a story written by

701
00:29:49,250 --> 00:29:46,440
Bret Christian who is a longtime skeptic

702
00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:49,260
and the publisher and editor of the post

703
00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:51,570
group of suburban newspapers in Perth

704
00:29:59,270 --> 00:29:56,010
Western Australia exposing psychics

705
00:30:05,420 --> 00:29:59,280
scandalous disregard for the feelings of

706
00:30:11,510 --> 00:30:09,500
murder for entertainment and profit few

707
00:30:14,030 --> 00:30:11,520
real-life murder mysteries have captured

708
00:30:16,700 --> 00:30:14,040
the public imagination as have perfs

709
00:30:18,980 --> 00:30:16,710
so-called clermont serial killings a

710
00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:18,990
series of abductions and murders of

711
00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:21,330
three young blonde women last seen

712
00:30:29,210 --> 00:30:24,290
leaving up-market suburban nightspots in

713
00:30:32,510 --> 00:30:29,220
1996 and 1997 the crimes caused untold

714
00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:32,520
grief for those left behind 11 years

715
00:30:37,540 --> 00:30:35,250
later the unsolved cases still inspire

716
00:30:40,190 --> 00:30:37,550
waves of media publicity and

717
00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:40,200
recriminations unscrupulous psychics

718
00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:42,210
have made the crimes their own hunting

719
00:30:49,490 --> 00:30:45,570
ground so much so that on September the

720
00:30:52,130 --> 00:30:49,500
27th 2008 three psychics decided to join

721
00:30:54,980 --> 00:30:52,140
forces to capitalize on public fear and

722
00:30:57,440 --> 00:30:54,990
curiosity for entertainment and profit

723
00:30:59,570 --> 00:30:57,450
for good measure they threw in the names

724
00:31:01,730 --> 00:30:59,580
of a couple of other young women who had

725
00:31:04,700 --> 00:31:01,740
disappeared in Western Australia over

726
00:31:07,670 --> 00:31:04,710
the past 20 years what they evidently

727
00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:07,680
forgot or didn't care about was that

728
00:31:12,380 --> 00:31:09,810
standing behind each young woman whose

729
00:31:14,390 --> 00:31:12,390
name they hyped was a legion of family

730
00:31:16,580 --> 00:31:14,400
and friends who found distressing this

731
00:31:19,250 --> 00:31:16,590
attention at the level of a carnival

732
00:31:21,770 --> 00:31:19,260
sideshow the so-called psychics familiar

733
00:31:25,340 --> 00:31:21,780
to many skeptics melodramatically named

734
00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:25,350
themselves the psychic task force they

735
00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:27,930
were Scott Russell Hill who modestly

736
00:31:32,780 --> 00:31:29,730
bills himself as the world's most

737
00:31:36,350 --> 00:31:32,790
accurate psychic ghost whisperer Anthony

738
00:31:39,170 --> 00:31:36,360
grisel Kerr and spirit medium Deb Malone

739
00:31:41,150 --> 00:31:39,180
who is regularly gifted credibility with

740
00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:41,160
invitations to appear on high rating

741
00:31:46,010 --> 00:31:43,290
television programs such as Channel

742
00:31:48,530 --> 00:31:46,020
Seven's sunrise the psychic task force

743
00:31:50,990 --> 00:31:48,540
members promised to use their combined

744
00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:51,000
paranormal powers for a live

745
00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:53,730
investigation into the clermont serial

746
00:31:57,920 --> 00:31:55,890
killings bait that was apparently

747
00:32:01,430 --> 00:31:57,930
irresistible for the mostly young

748
00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:01,440
audience that filled the 2300 capacity

749
00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:05,010
burswood casino theatre twice over at a

750
00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:06,450
ticket price of a hundred and

751
00:32:12,020 --> 00:32:09,090
thirty-five dollars ahead listeners to

752
00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:12,030
pervs local nova radio station could not

753
00:32:16,970 --> 00:32:14,250
swipe their credit cards fast enough

754
00:32:18,109 --> 00:32:16,980
after Scott Russell Hill of sensing

755
00:32:20,209 --> 00:32:18,119
murder Fame

756
00:32:22,219 --> 00:32:20,219
former radio jock went on air to

757
00:32:24,619 --> 00:32:22,229
demonstrate his so-called powers and

758
00:32:28,029 --> 00:32:24,629
sweep this vast audience towards the

759
00:32:31,939 --> 00:32:28,039
burswood on a crest of his psychic wave

760
00:32:34,399 --> 00:32:31,949
email campaign after the state show

761
00:32:36,979 --> 00:32:34,409
along an excitable anonymous email

762
00:32:39,289 --> 00:32:36,989
spread like wildfire through western

763
00:32:41,299 --> 00:32:39,299
australia's vast internet social network

764
00:32:43,309 --> 00:32:41,309
it warned young women to be on the

765
00:32:45,919 --> 00:32:43,319
lookout for a man who's identical

766
00:32:48,439 --> 00:32:45,929
allegedly unfolded on stage from the

767
00:32:50,599 --> 00:32:48,449
visions of the psychic task force his

768
00:32:52,699 --> 00:32:50,609
image projected onto a big screen while

769
00:32:55,069 --> 00:32:52,709
the task force sat beneath the picture

770
00:32:57,049 --> 00:32:55,079
churning out and greyfax that police

771
00:32:58,669 --> 00:32:57,059
running australia's most extensive

772
00:33:01,159 --> 00:32:58,679
murder investigation had failed to

773
00:33:03,289 --> 00:33:01,169
uncover the success with which this

774
00:33:06,109 --> 00:33:03,299
hokey act preyed on the fears and

775
00:33:08,089 --> 00:33:06,119
gullibility of its audience jumps off

776
00:33:09,769 --> 00:33:08,099
the computer screen they depressingly

777
00:33:12,799 --> 00:33:09,779
show that skeptics still have a lot of

778
00:33:16,009 --> 00:33:12,809
work to do among the under 30 s the

779
00:33:18,169 --> 00:33:16,019
target Nova FM audience I've just seen

780
00:33:20,359 --> 00:33:18,179
the most amazing show I've just in the

781
00:33:21,859 --> 00:33:20,369
face of the clermont serial killer if he

782
00:33:24,529 --> 00:33:21,869
crosses my path I'd know him in a

783
00:33:26,959 --> 00:33:24,539
heartbeat the show was by three psychics

784
00:33:29,119 --> 00:33:26,969
have done an amazing investigation into

785
00:33:30,739 --> 00:33:29,129
the clermont killings and information

786
00:33:33,109 --> 00:33:30,749
was just too incredible not to pass on

787
00:33:35,419 --> 00:33:33,119
oh and I by the way he's planning on

788
00:33:37,009 --> 00:33:35,429
striking you again very soon so make

789
00:33:40,039 --> 00:33:37,019
sure you let as many females know this

790
00:33:41,869 --> 00:33:40,049
information as soon as you can so the

791
00:33:44,299 --> 00:33:41,879
killer is about 35 years old now

792
00:33:46,219 --> 00:33:44,309
possibly as old as 40 he's been killing

793
00:33:48,949 --> 00:33:46,229
for quite some time the Clermont girls

794
00:33:50,749 --> 00:33:48,959
were not his only victims and in fact if

795
00:33:52,519 --> 00:33:50,759
you remember Julie Cutler and Hayley

796
00:33:55,219 --> 00:33:52,529
Dodd then you already know that he's

797
00:33:57,529 --> 00:33:55,229
been operating well before Clermont the

798
00:33:58,729 --> 00:33:57,539
psychics know where Sarah is located but

799
00:33:59,989 --> 00:33:58,739
it's going to be difficult to get her

800
00:34:02,419 --> 00:33:59,999
remains as they're underneath the

801
00:34:04,309 --> 00:34:02,429
limestone in Henderson this area was

802
00:34:06,109 --> 00:34:04,319
redeveloped very soon after he hid her

803
00:34:08,329 --> 00:34:06,119
body there in fact he knew that would

804
00:34:10,399 --> 00:34:08,339
happen as he worked in the area so

805
00:34:12,799 --> 00:34:10,409
things of interest this man is not a

806
00:34:14,779 --> 00:34:12,809
taxi driver he actually drove a blue

807
00:34:17,180 --> 00:34:14,789
Ford Falcon I can't remember the exact

808
00:34:19,339 --> 00:34:17,190
models and hopeless with car and he

809
00:34:21,739 --> 00:34:19,349
definitely knew Sarah that's why she got

810
00:34:23,149 --> 00:34:21,749
into his car he was a casual friend of

811
00:34:25,039 --> 00:34:23,159
one of sarah's friends and that's why

812
00:34:27,619 --> 00:34:25,049
she trusted him despite not knowing him

813
00:34:29,180 --> 00:34:27,629
very well psychics also had the name of

814
00:34:31,389 --> 00:34:29,190
his friend and they can use is to verify

815
00:34:33,579 --> 00:34:31,399
the information to the police

816
00:34:36,369 --> 00:34:33,589
he's very clever is cold and calculating

817
00:34:37,779 --> 00:34:36,379
everything was well planned and he went

818
00:34:39,789 --> 00:34:37,789
out knowing exactly what he was going to

819
00:34:42,220 --> 00:34:39,799
do and how he would make it happen he

820
00:34:44,500 --> 00:34:42,230
had a plan well she was actually taken

821
00:34:46,899 --> 00:34:44,510
from a car park behind Club bayview as

822
00:34:48,430 --> 00:34:46,909
was the case with Jane and kiara this

823
00:34:50,589 --> 00:34:48,440
guy picked these girls because of their

824
00:34:52,629 --> 00:34:50,599
hair and he's kept the hair as trophies

825
00:34:55,240 --> 00:34:52,639
he interacted with these girls before

826
00:34:57,129 --> 00:34:55,250
taking them and yes he is the man on at

827
00:34:59,289 --> 00:34:57,139
the CCTV vision that has just recently

828
00:35:01,630 --> 00:34:59,299
been released and yes he was talking to

829
00:35:03,309 --> 00:35:01,640
Jane on that footage I had a really good

830
00:35:06,099 --> 00:35:03,319
look and an identical picture of this

831
00:35:08,049 --> 00:35:06,109
man and he's a Mediterranean or Italian

832
00:35:10,870 --> 00:35:08,059
background he has dark hair and dark

833
00:35:12,339 --> 00:35:10,880
eyes i felt absolutely sick when I

834
00:35:14,680 --> 00:35:12,349
looked at him and as I stared at his

835
00:35:16,779 --> 00:35:14,690
picture ever feel the rage and anger and

836
00:35:18,250 --> 00:35:16,789
the hate to the point where I saw his

837
00:35:19,569 --> 00:35:18,260
face change into what it would have

838
00:35:22,839 --> 00:35:19,579
looked like when he committed these

839
00:35:25,630 --> 00:35:22,849
crimes it was really scary he's driven

840
00:35:27,730 --> 00:35:25,640
by compulsion and he will not stop so

841
00:35:30,430 --> 00:35:27,740
you may ask why has he gone so quiet

842
00:35:32,230 --> 00:35:30,440
well he has other victims varied very

843
00:35:34,329 --> 00:35:32,240
close to Sarah they were taken before

844
00:35:36,940 --> 00:35:34,339
Sarah up in the meantime he's got

845
00:35:38,650 --> 00:35:36,950
married and had children also careful

846
00:35:40,900 --> 00:35:38,660
not to describe anything too graphic to

847
00:35:43,029 --> 00:35:40,910
us about what he did to the girls he did

848
00:35:44,769 --> 00:35:43,039
some pretty bad to them and it

849
00:35:47,230 --> 00:35:44,779
involved a ritual that had surgical

850
00:35:49,089 --> 00:35:47,240
aspects this is important to him and he

851
00:35:51,700 --> 00:35:49,099
did it to all the bodies and the

852
00:35:53,319 --> 00:35:51,710
violence escalated with each girl Sarah

853
00:35:55,150 --> 00:35:53,329
was still alive when he took her to

854
00:35:57,460 --> 00:35:55,160
Henderson she actually tried to make a

855
00:35:59,710 --> 00:35:57,470
run for when they got there but to no

856
00:36:01,839 --> 00:35:59,720
avail he's driven by issues with his

857
00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:01,849
mother and whilst she did not physically

858
00:36:06,339 --> 00:36:04,010
harm him she put him down a lot and he

859
00:36:08,500 --> 00:36:06,349
suffered mentally her hands she did this

860
00:36:10,660 --> 00:36:08,510
because of issues with his father he has

861
00:36:12,609 --> 00:36:10,670
an inferiority complex and that's why he

862
00:36:14,019 --> 00:36:12,619
goes after the high class girls when

863
00:36:16,059 --> 00:36:14,029
they reject his office they're signing

864
00:36:17,859 --> 00:36:16,069
their own death certificates personally

865
00:36:19,359 --> 00:36:17,869
I have no doubt the Sarah's talking from

866
00:36:20,859 --> 00:36:19,369
beyond the grave and she's tried to make

867
00:36:22,599 --> 00:36:20,869
her efforts known by linking to

868
00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:22,609
high-profile media personalities like

869
00:36:27,130 --> 00:36:25,490
Scott Russell Hill she's timed it to

870
00:36:28,750 --> 00:36:27,140
coincide with all the latest hype about

871
00:36:30,370 --> 00:36:28,760
Claremont and particularly with the

872
00:36:32,559 --> 00:36:30,380
release of that footage not so long ago

873
00:36:34,450 --> 00:36:32,569
I think these psychics have absolutely

874
00:36:36,490 --> 00:36:34,460
nailed this case they have really

875
00:36:38,049 --> 00:36:36,500
detailed information and it will be easy

876
00:36:41,349 --> 00:36:38,059
for the police to validate if it's real

877
00:36:43,870 --> 00:36:41,359
or not needless to say the killer has

878
00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:43,880
not struck again and nothing the psychic

879
00:36:47,890 --> 00:36:45,410
task force curvy

880
00:36:50,350 --> 00:36:47,900
older has led to any perpetrator being

881
00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:50,360
identified in fact police said it

882
00:36:55,180 --> 00:36:53,330
damaged their investigation they do not

883
00:36:57,430 --> 00:36:55,190
even know for sure that the three

884
00:37:01,270 --> 00:36:57,440
Claremont victims were abducted by the

885
00:37:04,060 --> 00:37:01,280
same person obvious question the obvious

886
00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:04,070
question arises if the psychics know so

887
00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:06,170
much about the murders why not go

888
00:37:11,140 --> 00:37:08,450
straight to the police why did they feel

889
00:37:13,780 --> 00:37:11,150
the need to first expose all this

890
00:37:16,240 --> 00:37:13,790
personal gruesome information before a

891
00:37:18,790 --> 00:37:16,250
paying audience apart from the obvious

892
00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:18,800
advantages to their bank balances they

893
00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:21,050
must surely be aware that no psychic

894
00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:23,690
anywhere in the world has ever provided

895
00:37:28,990 --> 00:37:26,210
vital information that led police to

896
00:37:31,450 --> 00:37:29,000
solve a crime the dismissive attitude of

897
00:37:34,210 --> 00:37:31,460
police is outlined in the authors murder

898
00:37:38,740 --> 00:37:34,220
and clairvoyance published in the

899
00:37:41,080 --> 00:37:38,750
skeptic 2004 volume 24 number one one

900
00:37:43,090 --> 00:37:41,090
can only imagine the feelings of the

901
00:37:45,670 --> 00:37:43,100
relatives when they heard of the psychic

902
00:37:48,370 --> 00:37:45,680
task force babbling about the manner in

903
00:37:50,470 --> 00:37:48,380
which these poor women died briefly the

904
00:37:53,770 --> 00:37:50,480
tripe outlined in the email is a

905
00:37:56,080 --> 00:37:53,780
mishmash of publicly known facts rumor

906
00:37:58,540 --> 00:37:56,090
and speculation about the murders that

907
00:38:02,470 --> 00:37:58,550
have been swirling around Perth for 12

908
00:38:04,390 --> 00:38:02,480
years bad slip-ups but the psychics took

909
00:38:06,700 --> 00:38:04,400
a big risk when they clearly channeled

910
00:38:09,010 --> 00:38:06,710
the outer lunatic limits of Google

911
00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:09,020
rather than the spirits of the deceased

912
00:38:14,650 --> 00:38:11,570
women here is where they badly slipped

913
00:38:16,630 --> 00:38:14,660
up bodies of two of the women thought to

914
00:38:19,660 --> 00:38:16,640
be victims of the clermont serial killer

915
00:38:22,840 --> 00:38:19,670
were discovered and minutely examined by

916
00:38:25,600 --> 00:38:22,850
pathologists in the usual way police

917
00:38:27,460 --> 00:38:25,610
know exactly how the women died and how

918
00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:27,470
they were treated but police

919
00:38:31,450 --> 00:38:29,330
investigating this case through an

920
00:38:34,420 --> 00:38:31,460
unusual blanket of security around the

921
00:38:36,130 --> 00:38:34,430
entire investigation all police involved

922
00:38:39,250 --> 00:38:36,140
in the task force were made to sign

923
00:38:41,500 --> 00:38:39,260
secret oaths very few details of the

924
00:38:44,940 --> 00:38:41,510
crimes were made public when secrecy is

925
00:38:47,650 --> 00:38:44,950
imposed speculation thrives and rumors

926
00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:47,660
dangerously inaccurate were rife in the

927
00:38:51,550 --> 00:38:49,610
community even making their way to

928
00:38:55,090 --> 00:38:51,560
school yards and fringe internet sites

929
00:38:57,760 --> 00:38:55,100
an easy resource for any psychic looking

930
00:38:59,259 --> 00:38:57,770
for sensational material rumor and

931
00:39:03,819 --> 00:38:59,269
speculation

932
00:39:06,729 --> 00:39:03,829
about the state of the bodies became so

933
00:39:09,159 --> 00:39:06,739
bizarre and so persistent that despite

934
00:39:11,469 --> 00:39:09,169
their obsessive secrecy police were

935
00:39:13,329 --> 00:39:11,479
compelled to go public with a statement

936
00:39:15,459 --> 00:39:13,339
about what had not happened to the

937
00:39:17,679 --> 00:39:15,469
bodies of the murdered women the

938
00:39:20,289 --> 00:39:17,689
visiting psychics evidently missed or

939
00:39:24,759 --> 00:39:20,299
ignored this fact as they trolled perfs

940
00:39:27,459 --> 00:39:24,769
folklore outrage and disgust Don Spears

941
00:39:29,949 --> 00:39:27,469
the father of teenager Sarah Spears 18

942
00:39:32,949 --> 00:39:29,959
abducted from Claremont reacted with

943
00:39:35,349 --> 00:39:32,959
outrage and disgust to the show and the

944
00:39:39,099 --> 00:39:35,359
email his daughter's body has not been

945
00:39:41,469 --> 00:39:39,109
found his harrowing tearful experiences

946
00:39:44,259 --> 00:39:41,479
were outlined in the article murder and

947
00:39:46,179 --> 00:39:44,269
clairvoyance he said for years he

948
00:39:48,370 --> 00:39:46,189
listened to psychics because clinging to

949
00:39:50,679 --> 00:39:48,380
every thread of hope he worried that a

950
00:39:54,370 --> 00:39:50,689
person with real information might be

951
00:39:56,979 --> 00:39:54,380
coming forward posing as a psychic he

952
00:39:59,259 --> 00:39:56,989
has since revealed he suffered

953
00:40:02,169 --> 00:39:59,269
depression as a result of his many

954
00:40:04,659 --> 00:40:02,179
fruitless searches some seven hours

955
00:40:07,749 --> 00:40:04,669
drive away while acting on psychics

956
00:40:09,699 --> 00:40:07,759
certainties psychics just want to make

957
00:40:12,129 --> 00:40:09,709
money from other people's grief and

958
00:40:15,279 --> 00:40:12,139
misfortune mr. Spears was quoted as

959
00:40:18,429 --> 00:40:15,289
saying the burswood event was about

960
00:40:21,549 --> 00:40:18,439
profit making not solving the case he

961
00:40:23,439 --> 00:40:21,559
said it upsets me that they are still

962
00:40:25,929 --> 00:40:23,449
trying to gain from the death of my

963
00:40:30,039 --> 00:40:25,939
daughter and the other girls after all

964
00:40:32,349 --> 00:40:30,049
these years another tragic case one of

965
00:40:34,509 --> 00:40:32,359
the extra names the team gratuitously

966
00:40:37,029 --> 00:40:34,519
through into their three and a half hour

967
00:40:39,489 --> 00:40:37,039
stage show supposedly a victim of the

968
00:40:42,069 --> 00:40:39,499
Clairemont killer was that of hailey

969
00:40:43,749 --> 00:40:42,079
Dodd a 17 year old who was far from home

970
00:40:46,689 --> 00:40:43,759
when she disappeared from the farming

971
00:40:51,339 --> 00:40:46,699
community of badging gara north of Perth

972
00:40:53,979 --> 00:40:51,349
in 1999 she too has a mother father

973
00:40:55,959 --> 00:40:53,989
family and friends when Margaret Dodd

974
00:40:57,969 --> 00:40:55,969
heard that the name of her daughter who

975
00:41:00,339 --> 00:40:57,979
is presumed to have been murdered had

976
00:41:02,889 --> 00:41:00,349
been raised during the psychic show she

977
00:41:04,689 --> 00:41:02,899
was more than curious she grimly noted

978
00:41:07,179 --> 00:41:04,699
that the psychics had got wrong the

979
00:41:09,069 --> 00:41:07,189
order of the disappearances of the young

980
00:41:11,499 --> 00:41:09,079
women she recalled that she had

981
00:41:12,750 --> 00:41:11,509
previously emailed Scott Russell Hill

982
00:41:15,570 --> 00:41:12,760
for help after

983
00:41:18,930 --> 00:41:15,580
seeing him on his laughably transparent

984
00:41:21,450 --> 00:41:18,940
television show sensing murder he never

985
00:41:23,850 --> 00:41:21,460
replied that's why I was so angry they

986
00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:23,860
could use Haley in a money-making show

987
00:41:29,250 --> 00:41:27,130
mrs. Dodd said here he was up on stage

988
00:41:31,980 --> 00:41:29,260
making money out of other people's

989
00:41:34,410 --> 00:41:31,990
sufferings it's hurtful now there's this

990
00:41:36,330 --> 00:41:34,420
long email about the show circulating

991
00:41:38,370 --> 00:41:36,340
with Haley's name in it that's how we

992
00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:38,380
found out that they had been using her

993
00:41:43,890 --> 00:41:41,290
name to make a buck I cried it all over

994
00:41:46,260 --> 00:41:43,900
again Margaret Dodd is no stranger to

995
00:41:48,180 --> 00:41:46,270
the extra pain that so-called psychics

996
00:41:50,940 --> 00:41:48,190
inflict on the families of murder

997
00:41:53,700 --> 00:41:50,950
victims from the time Haley disappeared

998
00:41:55,440 --> 00:41:53,710
mrs. Dodd was played with psychics who

999
00:41:58,680 --> 00:41:55,450
claimed to be in contact with her

1000
00:42:01,260 --> 00:41:58,690
daughter one stumbled badly starting her

1001
00:42:04,290 --> 00:42:01,270
cold reading with two spectacular misses

1002
00:42:06,630 --> 00:42:04,300
the psychic said Haley spirit had sat in

1003
00:42:09,810 --> 00:42:06,640
her kitchen and eaten breakfast mrs.

1004
00:42:11,520 --> 00:42:09,820
Dodd said she said Haley loved Vegemite

1005
00:42:13,770 --> 00:42:11,530
toast and really wanted to get her

1006
00:42:16,200 --> 00:42:13,780
driver's license but we're from England

1007
00:42:19,250 --> 00:42:16,210
she hated Vegemite and already had her

1008
00:42:22,020 --> 00:42:19,260
license the psychic was just guessing

1009
00:42:25,230 --> 00:42:22,030
despite living daily with the tragedy of

1010
00:42:28,440 --> 00:42:25,240
the loss of Haley mrs. Dodd has retained

1011
00:42:30,840 --> 00:42:28,450
a sense of humor it's amazing how many

1012
00:42:34,230 --> 00:42:30,850
people are psychic in this world she

1013
00:42:36,960 --> 00:42:34,240
said her voice heavy with irony she now

1014
00:42:39,480 --> 00:42:36,970
has two phone numbers one listed and one

1015
00:42:41,840 --> 00:42:39,490
not when the listed number rings she

1016
00:42:44,760 --> 00:42:41,850
steals herself to tackle another psychic

1017
00:42:47,070 --> 00:42:44,770
when one has nothing one tends to grasp

1018
00:42:50,040 --> 00:42:47,080
at straws no matter how obscure they may

1019
00:42:53,130 --> 00:42:50,050
be she said psychics had sent her on

1020
00:42:56,130 --> 00:42:53,140
tearful searches of bush near more river

1021
00:42:59,070 --> 00:42:56,140
and other far-flung locations half a

1022
00:43:00,900 --> 00:42:59,080
day's drive away all to no avail another

1023
00:43:02,910 --> 00:43:00,910
psychic who charged thirty dollars of

1024
00:43:05,220 --> 00:43:02,920
reading said that Margaret was an

1025
00:43:07,650 --> 00:43:05,230
aristocratic French woman who had been

1026
00:43:09,930 --> 00:43:07,660
beheaded in a previous life she then

1027
00:43:12,030 --> 00:43:09,940
said mrs. Dodd distorted versions of

1028
00:43:13,770 --> 00:43:12,040
information that had been published in

1029
00:43:16,890 --> 00:43:13,780
the press about her daughter's case I

1030
00:43:19,260 --> 00:43:16,900
wanted to believe mrs. Dodd said the

1031
00:43:22,230 --> 00:43:19,270
psychic swore she never watched TV or

1032
00:43:24,360 --> 00:43:22,240
read newspapers as I left the house the

1033
00:43:26,190 --> 00:43:24,370
television was blaring in one corner and

1034
00:43:28,349 --> 00:43:26,200
there were a stack of newspapers

1035
00:43:30,300 --> 00:43:28,359
the table she asked me if there was

1036
00:43:33,390 --> 00:43:30,310
anything I would like to ask the spirits

1037
00:43:35,760 --> 00:43:33,400
so I said yes where is our TV remote

1038
00:43:37,640 --> 00:43:35,770
we've lost it all the spirits could

1039
00:43:40,440 --> 00:43:37,650
offer that it would turn up one day

1040
00:43:43,260 --> 00:43:40,450
let's have a bit of dignity here people

1041
00:43:45,930 --> 00:43:43,270
are hurting despite her cynicism and

1042
00:43:48,089 --> 00:43:45,940
many disappointments Margaret bods next

1043
00:43:50,700 --> 00:43:48,099
move shows the power the cold reader

1044
00:43:53,579 --> 00:43:50,710
holds over desperate relatives who have

1045
00:43:55,349 --> 00:43:53,589
lost a loved one after she complained to

1046
00:43:57,990 --> 00:43:55,359
the three psychics about their

1047
00:44:00,569 --> 00:43:58,000
exploitative Perth show Deb Malone

1048
00:44:03,300 --> 00:44:00,579
contacted her in November the spirit

1049
00:44:06,630 --> 00:44:03,310
medium could not let go she threw poor

1050
00:44:09,020 --> 00:44:06,640
mrs. Dodd another straw to clutch she

1051
00:44:12,150 --> 00:44:09,030
was very apologetic about my feelings

1052
00:44:15,750 --> 00:44:12,160
she asked me to send a piece of Hayley's

1053
00:44:18,630 --> 00:44:15,760
clothing Margaret said so I said to her

1054
00:44:21,089 --> 00:44:18,640
if you can find her find her don't mess

1055
00:44:23,220 --> 00:44:21,099
me around I've done it I've sent the

1056
00:44:25,890 --> 00:44:23,230
clothes I'll see what comes out of it

1057
00:44:27,720 --> 00:44:25,900
she said now I want these Sears to prove

1058
00:44:30,060 --> 00:44:27,730
their credibility if it's a trick like

1059
00:44:32,190 --> 00:44:30,070
Houdini then state it is only for

1060
00:44:34,349 --> 00:44:32,200
entertainment let them stick to the

1061
00:44:36,660 --> 00:44:34,359
winning lotto numbers her turmoil

1062
00:44:39,390 --> 00:44:36,670
matches the addled actions of the

1063
00:44:41,660 --> 00:44:39,400
otherwise sane people who run FM station

1064
00:44:43,950 --> 00:44:41,670
Nova and their on-air presenters

1065
00:44:46,710 --> 00:44:43,960
bubble-headed and unquestioning

1066
00:44:48,930 --> 00:44:46,720
promotions of the psychic show while the

1067
00:44:51,720 --> 00:44:48,940
murder victims relatives are left alone

1068
00:45:10,180 --> 00:44:51,730
with their tears those who exploit them

1069
00:45:15,440 --> 00:45:12,769
well thanks everybody for joining me for

1070
00:45:18,170 --> 00:45:15,450
this Boxing Day episode of the skeptic

1071
00:45:20,750 --> 00:45:18,180
zone next week Stefan will be back along

1072
00:45:22,609 --> 00:45:20,760
with dr. Richie the roundup with my

1073
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koala hand the think tank with the

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regular crew and if you enjoy listening

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to the skeptic zone all the past

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episodes in this episode do us a really

1077
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great favor and leave a review on iTunes

1078
00:45:38,150 --> 00:45:36,210
we'd really appreciate that and of

1079
00:45:40,549 --> 00:45:38,160
course don't be scared to write in to us

1080
00:45:43,460 --> 00:45:40,559
you'll find all our email addresses on

1081
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the contact page so until next week this

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is Richard Saunders signing off from

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Sydney Australia you've been listening

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to the skeptic zone visit our website at

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WWF digs on TV for comments contacts and

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skin